<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Build a simple solar water heater</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b</link>
	<description>Climate change is real. You're causing it. You can stop it. Will you try?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:51:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-8299</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-8299</guid>
		<description>What are some ways you could make this even more efficient?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are some ways you could make this even more efficient?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ugly and Broke</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-7462</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly and Broke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-7462</guid>
		<description>How about using a truck radiator as a solar heater, with as much of the fins shaved off the core? It would be painted flat black of course. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about using a truck radiator as a solar heater, with as much of the fins shaved off the core? It would be painted flat black of course. Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ugly and Broke</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-7461</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly and Broke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-7461</guid>
		<description>Thank you for a great webpage, idea and explanation. You&#039;ve done a good deed for society!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for a great webpage, idea and explanation. You&#8217;ve done a good deed for society!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-7211</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-7211</guid>
		<description>Hi John,
I&#039;m not sure of the exact setup you&#039;re proposing but it sounds like you may be considering a heat exchanger external to your existing tank. If that is the case you should consider something like a Solar Wand (do a google search). This is a heat exchanger that can be inserted into your existing hot water tank and would likely be more effective and probably cheaper than an external heat exchanger which would require two pumps... one to circulate water from the tank and one to circulate water from the solar collectors. Good luck.
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,<br />
I&#8217;m not sure of the exact setup you&#8217;re proposing but it sounds like you may be considering a heat exchanger external to your existing tank. If that is the case you should consider something like a Solar Wand (do a google search). This is a heat exchanger that can be inserted into your existing hot water tank and would likely be more effective and probably cheaper than an external heat exchanger which would require two pumps&#8230; one to circulate water from the tank and one to circulate water from the solar collectors. Good luck.<br />
Rob</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Winlow</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-7207</link>
		<dc:creator>John Winlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 17:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-7207</guid>
		<description>Congratulations on a very novel way of building a solar heated water panel.
I want to try something similar to yours, using a similar framing technique
from perhaps upvc material and some sheets of glass I have saved from some old sliding doors.
I want the circuit to be as simple as possible so that the heated water feeds into our existing hot water cylinder,
currently heated by immersion element.
I aim to hang the panel on an outside west facing wall because that is where the sun is strongest from about noon onwards.
The problem will be circulation of the water -unless I use an indirect cylinder which I could, so that the solar heated water simply feeds the coil in the cylinder and heats water fed from a tank.
In the winter time I could drain the system down to avoid freezing and cracking of the glass.
What do you see as the immediate problems?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations on a very novel way of building a solar heated water panel.<br />
I want to try something similar to yours, using a similar framing technique<br />
from perhaps upvc material and some sheets of glass I have saved from some old sliding doors.<br />
I want the circuit to be as simple as possible so that the heated water feeds into our existing hot water cylinder,<br />
currently heated by immersion element.<br />
I aim to hang the panel on an outside west facing wall because that is where the sun is strongest from about noon onwards.<br />
The problem will be circulation of the water -unless I use an indirect cylinder which I could, so that the solar heated water simply feeds the coil in the cylinder and heats water fed from a tank.<br />
In the winter time I could drain the system down to avoid freezing and cracking of the glass.<br />
What do you see as the immediate problems?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zawy</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6757</link>
		<dc:creator>zawy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2011 14:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6757</guid>
		<description>My efficiency calculation for his system uses some complex reasoning due to his inlet temperature measurement not being a direct way of calculating efficiency.  But he reports the initial outlet temp to be 27.7 degrees hotter than the inlet and and that flow rate was 0.8 L/min.  This gives a direct efficiency calculation:

4.18 * 27.7 C *0.8 L/min * 1,000 mL/L * 1/60 min/sec = 1,544 W per 1.4 m^2.  This is 110% which shows his estimated flow rate is too high. It appears he was just watching the temp change to estimate the turn-over in tank volume which would give too high a flow rate because the water is mixing. The inlet temp would get hotter before tank volume had actually turned over.  By my estimate of efficiency, his flow rate at the beginning was actually about 0.44 L/min.

I saw in a different forum that there is some concern about the plastic aging way too fast when it is touching water.  This idea could use a solar pool heater plastic piping ($160 for 80 ft^2 on amazon) and this type of insulation backing, frame, and polystyrene front  cover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My efficiency calculation for his system uses some complex reasoning due to his inlet temperature measurement not being a direct way of calculating efficiency.  But he reports the initial outlet temp to be 27.7 degrees hotter than the inlet and and that flow rate was 0.8 L/min.  This gives a direct efficiency calculation:</p>
<p>4.18 * 27.7 C *0.8 L/min * 1,000 mL/L * 1/60 min/sec = 1,544 W per 1.4 m^2.  This is 110% which shows his estimated flow rate is too high. It appears he was just watching the temp change to estimate the turn-over in tank volume which would give too high a flow rate because the water is mixing. The inlet temp would get hotter before tank volume had actually turned over.  By my estimate of efficiency, his flow rate at the beginning was actually about 0.44 L/min.</p>
<p>I saw in a different forum that there is some concern about the plastic aging way too fast when it is touching water.  This idea could use a solar pool heater plastic piping ($160 for 80 ft^2 on amazon) and this type of insulation backing, frame, and polystyrene front  cover.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zawy</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6756</link>
		<dc:creator>zawy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2011 01:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6756</guid>
		<description>Your collector is doing a lot better better than 38%.  After the system reached about 37 C you started losing a higher percentage out the front window and maybe evaporation from your open cooler.  Your real efficiency below 37 C was closer to 4.18*20L*30C/3,000s =  836 W ~ 60%.   Judging from the shadows, the sun was vertical enough to get close to the 1,000 W/m^2 as you stated.

A polystyrene or polycarbonate cover reflects 5% from it&#039;s front surface and 5% from the back for a 10% loss.  Glass, polypropylene, acrylic, and plexiglass reflects about 8% total from front and back.  Thick plastics like plexiglass are also going to absorb a bit of the infrared.  A 2-pane window is only needed for fairly cold places because it also causes a penalty of 8% or 10% from reflection.   The front surface of the corrugated plastic would lose another 4% from reflection if it is clear and the liquid is black.  

A decently insulated system like yours will lose about 10% from heat escaping.  So 75% is easy, and it&#039;s hard to do much better no matter how professional the design.   The objective is to transfer heat to the fluid without raising the air temp between the corrugated plastic and the front window (your polystyrene). Higher temps in the air gap mean higher energy loss out the front.  Your plastic method doesn&#039;t lose the additional 4% from reflection that occurs in a black water design, but the front side of the black-painted plastic is heating up the air gap a bit more than ideal which is why you&#039;re getting 60% instead of 75%.  You could probably get up to 70% with your method.  

If you make your collector 4x8 and lay it long along the ground tilted back 30 degrees from the vertical and then lay one 4x8 insulation board on the ground in front of it with the reflective side up, you&#039;ll get 30% more light for 3 or 4 hours/day.  Add another insulation board at the top (tilted 30 degrees forward from the vertical) and you&#039;ll get another 30%, bringing your &quot;efficiency&quot; to 1.3*1.3*0.60 = 101%.  It&#039;s basically a trough design. These 30 degree angles are sufficient for all of the U.S. (the reflection boards reduce losses from not being at an ideal angle).   The longer the better to get the early morning and late afternoon.   If you add a car radiator on the inside of the house with one 4x8 collector and two reflectors, you should easily transfer 6 m^2 of sunlight to the house (4 kW average for 5 hours in the winter, equal to nearly three 1,500 electrical heaters, enough for 1,000 sq ft).

You do not want an air gap between the surface of the water in a black water design and the corrugated plastic (or whatever you use to contain the water) because then you&#039;ll lose 8% more reflection: 4% from the inside of the plastic and 4% from the water surface, black or not.  When the water touches the plastic it&#039;s like a &quot;coupling&quot;. It&#039;s the transition from air to plastic/water/glass AND vice versa that causes the reflection loss, based on a difference in the index of refraction (1.0 for air and ~1.5 for plastic, water, and glass).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your collector is doing a lot better better than 38%.  After the system reached about 37 C you started losing a higher percentage out the front window and maybe evaporation from your open cooler.  Your real efficiency below 37 C was closer to 4.18*20L*30C/3,000s =  836 W ~ 60%.   Judging from the shadows, the sun was vertical enough to get close to the 1,000 W/m^2 as you stated.</p>
<p>A polystyrene or polycarbonate cover reflects 5% from it&#8217;s front surface and 5% from the back for a 10% loss.  Glass, polypropylene, acrylic, and plexiglass reflects about 8% total from front and back.  Thick plastics like plexiglass are also going to absorb a bit of the infrared.  A 2-pane window is only needed for fairly cold places because it also causes a penalty of 8% or 10% from reflection.   The front surface of the corrugated plastic would lose another 4% from reflection if it is clear and the liquid is black.  </p>
<p>A decently insulated system like yours will lose about 10% from heat escaping.  So 75% is easy, and it&#8217;s hard to do much better no matter how professional the design.   The objective is to transfer heat to the fluid without raising the air temp between the corrugated plastic and the front window (your polystyrene). Higher temps in the air gap mean higher energy loss out the front.  Your plastic method doesn&#8217;t lose the additional 4% from reflection that occurs in a black water design, but the front side of the black-painted plastic is heating up the air gap a bit more than ideal which is why you&#8217;re getting 60% instead of 75%.  You could probably get up to 70% with your method.  </p>
<p>If you make your collector 4&#215;8 and lay it long along the ground tilted back 30 degrees from the vertical and then lay one 4&#215;8 insulation board on the ground in front of it with the reflective side up, you&#8217;ll get 30% more light for 3 or 4 hours/day.  Add another insulation board at the top (tilted 30 degrees forward from the vertical) and you&#8217;ll get another 30%, bringing your &#8220;efficiency&#8221; to 1.3*1.3*0.60 = 101%.  It&#8217;s basically a trough design. These 30 degree angles are sufficient for all of the U.S. (the reflection boards reduce losses from not being at an ideal angle).   The longer the better to get the early morning and late afternoon.   If you add a car radiator on the inside of the house with one 4&#215;8 collector and two reflectors, you should easily transfer 6 m^2 of sunlight to the house (4 kW average for 5 hours in the winter, equal to nearly three 1,500 electrical heaters, enough for 1,000 sq ft).</p>
<p>You do not want an air gap between the surface of the water in a black water design and the corrugated plastic (or whatever you use to contain the water) because then you&#8217;ll lose 8% more reflection: 4% from the inside of the plastic and 4% from the water surface, black or not.  When the water touches the plastic it&#8217;s like a &#8220;coupling&#8221;. It&#8217;s the transition from air to plastic/water/glass AND vice versa that causes the reflection loss, based on a difference in the index of refraction (1.0 for air and ~1.5 for plastic, water, and glass).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Martins</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6683</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Martins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6683</guid>
		<description>I wonder if there is a even lower cost method with even greater efficiency. 

Has anybody tried corex?  - its plastic corigated cardboard. Its only £7 for an 8&#039;x4&#039; sheet. Its light and easy to cut and handle. weight per mm surface area in contact with the water and surface area per m2 would be good as well.

Might break down with UV but could be coated and its available in black.

The top and bottom tubes might need some work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there is a even lower cost method with even greater efficiency. </p>
<p>Has anybody tried corex?  &#8211; its plastic corigated cardboard. Its only £7 for an 8&#8242;x4&#8242; sheet. Its light and easy to cut and handle. weight per mm surface area in contact with the water and surface area per m2 would be good as well.</p>
<p>Might break down with UV but could be coated and its available in black.</p>
<p>The top and bottom tubes might need some work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eyemick</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6252</link>
		<dc:creator>eyemick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Nov 2010 03:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6252</guid>
		<description>Hi, Rob.  This is an amazing amount of usable information.  I have a couple questions.  I have long wondered about the feasibility of a dewer flask on a large scale for thermal storage, even a DIY tank.  Could a polished metal or plastic tank wrapped with MLI insulation (space suit material) be enclosed within another tank and evacuate the void?  Would that be a viable way to store heat long-term?  A 1,000 gal. tank should store 62,500 btus per degree.  Any idea on how to test the idea?  The other thing I noticed from this article was the shallow-water bath.  That seems like an easier system for an insulated system like your solar attic.  How much more energy is collected by a bath setup versus the coroplast collector?  Thanks for sharing knowledge, Ian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Rob.  This is an amazing amount of usable information.  I have a couple questions.  I have long wondered about the feasibility of a dewer flask on a large scale for thermal storage, even a DIY tank.  Could a polished metal or plastic tank wrapped with MLI insulation (space suit material) be enclosed within another tank and evacuate the void?  Would that be a viable way to store heat long-term?  A 1,000 gal. tank should store 62,500 btus per degree.  Any idea on how to test the idea?  The other thing I noticed from this article was the shallow-water bath.  That seems like an easier system for an insulated system like your solar attic.  How much more energy is collected by a bath setup versus the coroplast collector?  Thanks for sharing knowledge, Ian.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6019</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 03:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6019</guid>
		<description>The method you described would work fine. If the tank can be opened, you could use a submersible pump right inside the tank and have the exit hose come out the top. Submersible is usually cheaper than inline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The method you described would work fine. If the tank can be opened, you could use a submersible pump right inside the tank and have the exit hose come out the top. Submersible is usually cheaper than inline.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: arthur</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-6014</link>
		<dc:creator>arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 21:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-6014</guid>
		<description>I know this may sound ignorant, but i have a few questions.  1.  I understand that thermal siphoning occurs with the &quot;heated&quot; hose higher to fill the &quot;tank&quot; (whatever storage container youre using  for heated water), and the lower hose (cooler water) goes back into the  heated source (the homemade panel)?  correct? 2.  How do  you use the water in the &quot;tank&quot;?  Do I make an exit hole from the tank to use the heated water?  My idea is as follows:  Build the system as you describe - hot hose ABOVE the cool hose (as a result of slightly tipping the heat source - panel), you now have a tank to collect the hot water.........from this tank you drill a hole to insert and seal a fitting and hose that has a water pump inline.  The water pump is connected to say a shower head.  You turn on the water pump to expel the water from the &quot;tank&quot; to give a hot shower?  Will this work as described if you put the &quot;outlet&quot; of the water pump at the low end of the tank to pump the hot water out?  I understand that the system will run dry  when all water is expelled.  This would be used in a remote situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this may sound ignorant, but i have a few questions.  1.  I understand that thermal siphoning occurs with the &#8220;heated&#8221; hose higher to fill the &#8220;tank&#8221; (whatever storage container youre using  for heated water), and the lower hose (cooler water) goes back into the  heated source (the homemade panel)?  correct? 2.  How do  you use the water in the &#8220;tank&#8221;?  Do I make an exit hole from the tank to use the heated water?  My idea is as follows:  Build the system as you describe &#8211; hot hose ABOVE the cool hose (as a result of slightly tipping the heat source &#8211; panel), you now have a tank to collect the hot water&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;from this tank you drill a hole to insert and seal a fitting and hose that has a water pump inline.  The water pump is connected to say a shower head.  You turn on the water pump to expel the water from the &#8220;tank&#8221; to give a hot shower?  Will this work as described if you put the &#8220;outlet&#8221; of the water pump at the low end of the tank to pump the hot water out?  I understand that the system will run dry  when all water is expelled.  This would be used in a remote situation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5960</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 17:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5960</guid>
		<description>Hi Attila,
Sorry for the slow response. You are welcome to republish the content on this site as long as you attribute and link to the original source. Thanks, and good luck.
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Attila,<br />
Sorry for the slow response. You are welcome to republish the content on this site as long as you attribute and link to the original source. Thanks, and good luck.<br />
Rob</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Attila</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5953</link>
		<dc:creator>Attila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 14:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5953</guid>
		<description>Hi Rob,

It is a great idea and construction! I run a non-profit &quot;green issues&quot; website in Hungary. Would it be possible to republish this content by translated on my site? of course I would display your site as source.

thanks.
attila</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p>It is a great idea and construction! I run a non-profit &#8220;green issues&#8221; website in Hungary. Would it be possible to republish this content by translated on my site? of course I would display your site as source.</p>
<p>thanks.<br />
attila</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5892</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5892</guid>
		<description>Hi John,
Sounds like a great project. Keep us posted. If you like, you can send me some pictures and your excel sheet and I will post them on this page. -Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,<br />
Sounds like a great project. Keep us posted. If you like, you can send me some pictures and your excel sheet and I will post them on this page. -Rob</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5891</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5891</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim,
I think your black box is a workable idea. Cost would be low and it would be quite reliable, but efficiency is lower if you are using convection instead of radiation to transfer the heat. The air will give up it&#039;s heat to the enclosure and glazing as readily as it will give it up to the heater core. While the cost per unit area would probably be lower, the cost per kWh might be high. But perhaps not. Hard to tell without trying.

Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim,<br />
I think your black box is a workable idea. Cost would be low and it would be quite reliable, but efficiency is lower if you are using convection instead of radiation to transfer the heat. The air will give up it&#8217;s heat to the enclosure and glazing as readily as it will give it up to the heater core. While the cost per unit area would probably be lower, the cost per kWh might be high. But perhaps not. Hard to tell without trying.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hearty</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5890</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hearty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5890</guid>
		<description>Repeating these comments I left on the instructables site for this topic.  My wife and I finally got one of these built and tested.  We built it as a drainback system and used plain water dyed black using pond dye.  We did not paint the panel.  We got frosted tempered glass panes from Craigslist to build this and the next ones.  We used an old hot water circulator pump also from Craigslist.

We did a 4 hour test on a clear day, readjusting the panel angle a few times during the test.  The full spreadsheet is available but I was not sure if it could be posted here.  It is a 1.814 square meter panel with 37.85 liters (10 gal) of water in the system.  We used a 55 gallon plastic drum for the tank.  The tank and hoses were not insulated.

Starting temp was 53.8 F. At the 1 hour mark the temp was 92.7 F, average power was 952 watts, 52% efficient. At 2 hours, 117 F, 768 watts, 42%. At 3 hours, 127 F, 593 watts, 33%. At 4 hours, 130 F, 464 watts, 26%.  We also did a stagnation test with no water in it, and it got up to 152 degrees F on a 45 degree day.  We are looking forward to mounting it permanently and testing reliability/longevity.  One thing we still need to do is get UV clear paint to help protect the panels from UV breakdown, and see if that affects the efficiency much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Repeating these comments I left on the instructables site for this topic.  My wife and I finally got one of these built and tested.  We built it as a drainback system and used plain water dyed black using pond dye.  We did not paint the panel.  We got frosted tempered glass panes from Craigslist to build this and the next ones.  We used an old hot water circulator pump also from Craigslist.</p>
<p>We did a 4 hour test on a clear day, readjusting the panel angle a few times during the test.  The full spreadsheet is available but I was not sure if it could be posted here.  It is a 1.814 square meter panel with 37.85 liters (10 gal) of water in the system.  We used a 55 gallon plastic drum for the tank.  The tank and hoses were not insulated.</p>
<p>Starting temp was 53.8 F. At the 1 hour mark the temp was 92.7 F, average power was 952 watts, 52% efficient. At 2 hours, 117 F, 768 watts, 42%. At 3 hours, 127 F, 593 watts, 33%. At 4 hours, 130 F, 464 watts, 26%.  We also did a stagnation test with no water in it, and it got up to 152 degrees F on a 45 degree day.  We are looking forward to mounting it permanently and testing reliability/longevity.  One thing we still need to do is get UV clear paint to help protect the panels from UV breakdown, and see if that affects the efficiency much.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5888</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5888</guid>
		<description>Alex, your particle panel idea is interesting, but I wouldn&#039;t go throwing a lot of patent lawyer money at it until you have it actually working in a real situation. I mean protect it with minimal costs and move forward with making it actually do something at home.
From a guy who does this stuff a lot, I see problems. First, you are going to have to control the flow, so there&#039;s more cost. The restriction of flow will use more pumping power, calculate that in.
You are going to have to insulate it in a box of some kind during the winter if you want heat enough to cover the costs of building it.
When you do insulate it, the box is going to get hot, maybe too hot for your plastic. Any curve or angled surface at the right angle to the sun will look &quot;black&quot; to the sun and cause heating, even with no water.

Now the question is, did anyone read my above post about the hot box with a simple car heater core, or car oil cooler in it and a fan? Using the air in the box to transfer the heat?
Just a black box with fiberglass insulation and glass front. Simple, cheap.
I&#039;m going to build it, I did some small scale tests and things look good heat wise, but if someone already did this and has bad data I don&#039;t want to waste my time.
As for the heat box I&#039;m talking about, there would be no problem with it getting hot when turned &quot;off&quot;, the wood, fiberglass insulation and glass front would handle it.
You can &quot;reverse&quot; it in summer (nights) when it&#039;s cooler outside than in the house, open a &quot;summer&quot; vent hole (with screen) and let cool outside air circulate inside.
And, don&#039;t worry, you can&#039;t patent a black solar box.

So please, comment, or did I not explain it properly? (feel free to ask questions)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, your particle panel idea is interesting, but I wouldn&#8217;t go throwing a lot of patent lawyer money at it until you have it actually working in a real situation. I mean protect it with minimal costs and move forward with making it actually do something at home.<br />
From a guy who does this stuff a lot, I see problems. First, you are going to have to control the flow, so there&#8217;s more cost. The restriction of flow will use more pumping power, calculate that in.<br />
You are going to have to insulate it in a box of some kind during the winter if you want heat enough to cover the costs of building it.<br />
When you do insulate it, the box is going to get hot, maybe too hot for your plastic. Any curve or angled surface at the right angle to the sun will look &#8220;black&#8221; to the sun and cause heating, even with no water.</p>
<p>Now the question is, did anyone read my above post about the hot box with a simple car heater core, or car oil cooler in it and a fan? Using the air in the box to transfer the heat?<br />
Just a black box with fiberglass insulation and glass front. Simple, cheap.<br />
I&#8217;m going to build it, I did some small scale tests and things look good heat wise, but if someone already did this and has bad data I don&#8217;t want to waste my time.<br />
As for the heat box I&#8217;m talking about, there would be no problem with it getting hot when turned &#8220;off&#8221;, the wood, fiberglass insulation and glass front would handle it.<br />
You can &#8220;reverse&#8221; it in summer (nights) when it&#8217;s cooler outside than in the house, open a &#8220;summer&#8221; vent hole (with screen) and let cool outside air circulate inside.<br />
And, don&#8217;t worry, you can&#8217;t patent a black solar box.</p>
<p>So please, comment, or did I not explain it properly? (feel free to ask questions)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hearty</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5867</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hearty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5867</guid>
		<description>I have read your blog and another one you commented on about using Coroplast for thermal collector panels with great interest.  I think Coroplast is an excellent material for a collector mainly because of it&#039;s higher temperature tolerance. My wife tested baking a sample at 250 degrees F and it came out feeling just about as rigid as normal. We also filled it with water and put it in the freezer and it did not deform from the ice.

I am however concerned about freezing problems, more due to glued joints at the ABS pipe at the top and bottom of an assembled panel bursting.  I plan to have a large holding tank of water used directly with the panels without a heat exchanger to the holding tank so I&#039;m not too interested in using a bunch of anti-freeze.  I am planning to build a drainback system using these panels, and just painting them black.

I also saw that polypropylene does not tolerate UV light well and will become brittle and break after long exposure. Coroplast can however be made special order with a UV absorber mixed in with the polypropylene. I am getting some regular Coroplast from a local sign shop that does not have the UV protection, so I&#039;m looking into paints that absorb the UV.  If the prototype works well I&#039;ll look into getting UV protected Coroplast for additional panels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read your blog and another one you commented on about using Coroplast for thermal collector panels with great interest.  I think Coroplast is an excellent material for a collector mainly because of it&#8217;s higher temperature tolerance. My wife tested baking a sample at 250 degrees F and it came out feeling just about as rigid as normal. We also filled it with water and put it in the freezer and it did not deform from the ice.</p>
<p>I am however concerned about freezing problems, more due to glued joints at the ABS pipe at the top and bottom of an assembled panel bursting.  I plan to have a large holding tank of water used directly with the panels without a heat exchanger to the holding tank so I&#8217;m not too interested in using a bunch of anti-freeze.  I am planning to build a drainback system using these panels, and just painting them black.</p>
<p>I also saw that polypropylene does not tolerate UV light well and will become brittle and break after long exposure. Coroplast can however be made special order with a UV absorber mixed in with the polypropylene. I am getting some regular Coroplast from a local sign shop that does not have the UV protection, so I&#8217;m looking into paints that absorb the UV.  If the prototype works well I&#8217;ll look into getting UV protected Coroplast for additional panels.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5861</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5861</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike,
Your guess is probably as good as mine, but my guess is that exposure to the plastic is not an issue. I doubt the chemicals that leach from the plastic are any more harmful than the chemicals people typically add to their hot tubs intentionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike,<br />
Your guess is probably as good as mine, but my guess is that exposure to the plastic is not an issue. I doubt the chemicals that leach from the plastic are any more harmful than the chemicals people typically add to their hot tubs intentionally.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Rimoin</title>
		<link>http://www.iwilltry.org/b/projects/build-a-simple-solar-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-5859</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Rimoin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iwilltry.org/b/?page_id=182#comment-5859</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I&#039;d like to use this design to heat a hot tub (in addition to a bio-gas powered water heater: read more about biogas here: http://solarcities.blogspot.com/) 

I&#039;m a bit worried about chemicals leaching into the water. I&#039;m not planning on drinking the hot tub water, but are there any issues with exposure to the plastic chemicals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to use this design to heat a hot tub (in addition to a bio-gas powered water heater: read more about biogas here: <a href="http://solarcities.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://solarcities.blogspot.com/</a>) </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit worried about chemicals leaching into the water. I&#8217;m not planning on drinking the hot tub water, but are there any issues with exposure to the plastic chemicals?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

